topic Re: How do I determine statistical difference in slopes with non-normal data in Discussions

How do I determine statistical difference in slopes with non-normal data

ZW — Mon, 29 Jul 2019 16:52:03 GMT

Greeting JMP Community,

I am currently working with a dataset containing a linear responses (r2 ranges from 0.86 to 0.99) of contaminant load in terms of the age of 6 indivuals with sampling over their entire lifetime (lifespans ranging from 2 years to 30+). 4 of the 6 individuals resided in the same region. I plotted the distributions using Log(10), ln, and centered data but I am unable to get a normal distribution for either age or load. Is there a suggested transformation or test to determine if the slopes are statistically different between the 6 individuals and between regions?

I found a post by staff a member suggesting indicator-variable regression with interaction is used to compare slopes of multiple linear fits but I am unsure if this test works with non-normal data. Additonally, the slopes range from 3 to ~500 so I could not use ANCOVA as the slopes are not homogenous. I look forward to hearing from the community and would appreciate any help.

Thanks,

Re: How do I determine statistical difference in slopes with non-normal data

Mark_Bailey — Mon, 29 Jul 2019 17:44:26 GMT

Why is normality of the distributions important? The assumption of normality in a regression model is that the conditional Y distribution is normal, not the observed Y or X. You can use the residual plots from regression in the case of normal errors in the response.

Your data set should include Load (Y), Age (X), and Individual (X). The Load and Age should be continuous numeric data. The Individual should be nominal, but you can use a numeric or character value.

You question is about the statistical difference in the slopes. That goal is exactly what the ANCOVA model is intended for. The model terms should be Age, Individual, and Age*Individual. The last crossed term will test the significance of the different slopes and allow you to model the individual differences (e.g., Prediction Profiler).

Re: How do I determine statistical difference in slopes with non-normal data

ZW — Mon, 29 Jul 2019 20:30:31 GMT

Mark Bailey,

Thank you for the quick response and for clarifying the observed Y or X do not have to be normal. I have included the output using your suggestions and found that the Individual*age is significant. I have included the model output below. To clarify, the residuals by predicted plot show a u-shaped and inverted-u shaped curve and visually there is no random pattern. Is this acceptable for this model?

Again, thank you for the response. I look forward to your reply.

Re: How do I determine statistical difference in slopes with non-normal data

Mark_Bailey — Mon, 29 Jul 2019 21:21:18 GMT

Glad you picked up on the residual analysis. It is easy to do but many people don't look at it. You have bias in the current model. There are non-linear changes in the response. Maybe not for everyone. But add Age*Age (i.e. X squared) and Age* Age * Individual (curvature not the same for each subject) to the model.

Does it help?

Re: How do I determine statistical difference in slopes with non-normal data

ZW — Mon, 29 Jul 2019 21:55:22 GMT

Mark Bailey,

I have included your suggestions and attached the output. I did have to duplicate the age column (Age-> age) to add the interactions. If this would cause an error please let me know if there are suggested method to properly add the model effects. Thank you again for your quick response.

Re: How do I determine statistical difference in slopes with non-normal data

Mark_Bailey — Tue, 30 Jul 2019 11:20:50 GMT

You should not have to create a new data column to enter these terms in the model. Enter ID, Age, and ID*Age as before. Select Age and ID*Age in the list of effects. Select Age in the column list. Click Cross.

This way might also change the statistical results. Your way unnecessarily introduces collinearity. For example, Age is correlated with Age*Age, right? The collinearity will increase the standard error of the estimates, increase the length of the confidence intervals, and reduce the t ratio. The second way first centers the predictors (subtracts mean value), which removes this collinearity. Please try the second way and report your results.

Regarding the non-random pattern in the residual plot, I would not be too concerned. It indicates that there is bias in your model, but the magnitude of the bias, about ±200, for a response up to 15000 is quite a small amount. In fact, your R square is 0.999, so there is little bias. I think it can be ignored for your purpose.

Re: How do I determine statistical difference in slopes with non-normal data

ZW — Wed, 31 Jul 2019 18:36:40 GMT

Mark Bailey,

Sorry for the delayed response. I have completed the model as requested. Thanks for the instruction on how to cross additional variables in the effects table. Below is the output with the requested effects. Thank you again for your help.

Re: How do I determine statistical difference in slopes with non-normal data

Mark_Bailey — Wed, 31 Jul 2019 19:44:26 GMT

It appears that the best linear model includes only the Age, ID, and Age*ID terms.

Re: How do I determine statistical difference in slopes with non-normal data

ZW — Wed, 31 Jul 2019 20:01:05 GMT

Mark Bailey,

Great! Returning to the orignal model, is there any part of the model to be concerned about? Also, do you suggest any post-hoc testing to identify which slopes are different from each other? I have included the original output with parameter estimates if that is of any use. Again, thank you for your help and quick response.

Re: How do I determine statistical difference in slopes with non-normal data

Mark_Bailey — Wed, 31 Jul 2019 20:09:05 GMT

The observed pattern in the residual by predicted plot is initially alarming but after review we concluded that

you could not eliminate it with higher order terms (although maybe we should try age*age, age*age*age, and age*age*age*age to be sure),
it represents a small excursion from random error (compare magnitude of residuals to magnitude of response or examine R square), and
it appears to be a problem only for one ID level.

How much more do you want to do?

Re: How do I determine statistical difference in slopes with non-normal data

ZW — Wed, 31 Jul 2019 20:23:40 GMT

Mark Bailey,

As long as I can state with 95% confidence using ANCOVA that my slopes are statistically different due to location or in this case ID I am very happy with the original model. I have included the age*age, age*age*age, and age*age*age*age just to be sure.

Re: How do I determine statistical difference in slopes with non-normal data

Mark_Bailey — Wed, 31 Jul 2019 21:04:12 GMT

I think that your conclusion is sound and defensible even with the slight pattern in the residual plot.

The new analysis with the higher orders should include ID alone and crossed with each of the Age terms. (Sorry I did not make that point clear before now.)

Re: How do I determine statistical difference in slopes with non-normal data

ZW — Wed, 31 Jul 2019 22:13:08 GMT

Mark Bailey,

I included ID in this last model and received the error "Warning: Ill-conditioned regression problem" and the following output.

Thanks again for you help,

Re: How do I determine statistical difference in slopes with non-normal data

Mark_Bailey — Thu, 01 Aug 2019 14:26:29 GMT

I think that result is because not all of the ID levels have enough data to fit all the higher order terms.

Re: How do I determine statistical difference in slopes with non-normal data

ZW — Thu, 01 Aug 2019 15:42:21 GMT

Mark Bailey,

There are very few points for 2 of the individuals. If there is an alternative test please let me know. Thanks for all of your help!

ZW

Re: How do I determine statistical difference in slopes with non-normal data

Mark_Bailey — Thu, 01 Aug 2019 15:56:48 GMT

Right. I think that the best you can do is to use the reduced model (Age, ID, Age*ID) and the tests that the provide. (We already covered that option.)

Re: How do I determine statistical difference in slopes with non-normal data

ZW — Thu, 01 Aug 2019 15:59:21 GMT

Mark Bailey,
Perfect! I will proceed with this model. Thanks again!
ZW