topic Re: Custom DOE, 4 continuous factors, want to add replicate runs in Discussions

Custom DOE, 4 continuous factors, want to add replicate runs

Shannon — Tue, 15 Jan 2019 20:30:53 GMT

I am creating a DOE with 4 continuous factors, including 2nd order interactions and quadratics. I would like to add replicate runs.

I tried typing 5 into the replicate runs box before creating the design, but the design that was created did not have any replicates. The number of runs was 20 and all were unique. I understand replicates to be running the same set of conditions more than once.

Am I misunderstanding what a replicate run is? or am I setting up the DOE incorrectly when I create it?

Re: Custom DOE, 4 continuous factors, want to add replicate runs

Peter_Bartell — Tue, 15 Jan 2019 20:58:05 GMT

Could you attach the JMP data table containing the design? I just tried to recreate your design and JMP did indeed give me 5 replicate rows in the data table...they all aren't the same treatment combination because in the custom design platform the coordinate exchange algorithm is maximizing your optimality criteria by placing the replicate points in the 4 factor coordinate space to maximize the optimality criteria, not just blindly give you identical treatment combinations for your 5 replicates. If you want to 'force' the data table to have 5 identical rows...I suggest making a 15 run design and then add your replicates (identical treatment combinations) by hand...but that won't maximize your optimality criteria and will also influence other design evaluation critieria as well.

Re: Custom DOE, 4 continuous factors, want to add replicate runs

Shannon — Tue, 15 Jan 2019 21:35:56 GMT

Here is an example data table with factor and response names removed. I have included 5 replicates out of 20 total runs.
Can you explain a little more which of these you would consider replicate, or what you mean by placing the replicates in 4 factor coordination space? What makes one run a replicate of another?

Re: Custom DOE, 4 continuous factors, want to add replicate runs

Shannon — Tue, 15 Jan 2019 21:37:54 GMT

Re: Custom DOE, 4 continuous factors, want to add replicate runs

Peter_Bartell — Wed, 16 Jan 2019 14:34:10 GMT

Shannon: See the attached JMP data table for a 20 run, I-optimal design, RSM model, with 5 replicates. I've assigned row markers for the replicate treatment combinations so you can find them in the randomized order. Take a look at the embedded DOE Dialog script in the data table to see the script selections from the Custom Design window. It looks like you weren't making the appropriate selections in the Custom Design planning window to generate your design.

Re: Custom DOE, 4 continuous factors, want to add replicate runs

Peter_Bartell — Wed, 16 Jan 2019 14:27:50 GMT

All optimal DOE tactics/algorithms (which is the basis of JMP's Custom Design platform) use a technique called coordinate exchange to identify positions in the factor design space to achieve a goal of the specific technique. Generally speaking it's to maximize what is called the 'optimality criteria'. There are different types of optimality criteria...and JMP supports most...such as D, A, I etc. Each has some really elegant math behind them. Explaining how this works in a discussion forum such as this is beyond the scope of the forum. I suggest taking a look at a great book co-authored by my colleage Brad Jones and Chris Natchsheim called "Optimal Design of Experiments: A Case Study Approach" for more examples and details.

Re: Custom DOE, 4 continuous factors, want to add replicate runs

Shannon — Fri, 18 Jan 2019 22:00:56 GMT

Peter, Thank you so much for providing the data table.

I opened your table and each time I run your dialog I get replicates, but whenever I start a new DOE dialog it is not working for some reason. Is there some preference that I may have set differently that is causing replicates to not happen? I enter the 5 replicates in the Number or Replicate Runs like you have on your table, then after I make the data table and open the dialog again (like I did with your file) the replicate number is back to 0. The only difference I can see is that the minimum runs I get is 15 whereas yours has 20. Thanks again for your help.

Re: Custom DOE, 4 continuous factors, want to add replicate runs

Peter_Bartell — Mon, 21 Jan 2019 14:44:00 GMT

Here is what my DOE dialog window looks like...from here I just hit Make Design and the design is created...does your's look like this from a new dialog window?

Re: Custom DOE, 4 continuous factors, want to add replicate runs

Shannon — Tue, 22 Jan 2019 02:11:58 GMT

Here is what mine looks like (capture). Everything is the same except for the order of the model terms and the minimum runs required. Then I click Make Design and there are no replicates in the design (capture 2).

Re: Custom DOE, 4 continuous factors, want to add replicate runs

Peter_Bartell — Tue, 22 Jan 2019 11:59:53 GMT

Hmmm. I'm not sure what's going on. One thing you might want to check are your JMP preferences in the DOE preference group. I've attached what mine look like. Maybe the optimality criteria option is forcing a specific optimality criteria in your's? Where mine is picking the most maximal as 'recommended'?

Re: Custom DOE, 4 continuous factors, want to add replicate runs

Shannon — Tue, 22 Jan 2019 21:41:29 GMT

I checked my DOE preferences and it did have D-optimality, so i set preferences to look like what you have. See attached. It doesn't seem to have solved the problem though. Still seeing the 15 minimum recommendation and no replicates in the design.

I did try your file again and it is working for me. So when I bring up your DOE dialog and Make Model it is giving replicates. I'm just not able to do it with a new DOE dialog. I guess I can use your file and set my factors to what I want and use your file to create the design. I was just hoping to figure out what is happening with my program that is causing the replicate runs function to not work.

Re: Custom DOE, 4 continuous factors, want to add replicate runs

Peter_Bartell — Tue, 22 Jan 2019 22:08:33 GMT

Here's my complete trail of mouse click by mouse click JMP breadcrumbs I'm using to get the 20 run I optimal design with 5 replicates, RSM model. Since your model effects aren't in the same order as mine in the Model window I'm wondering if somehow the way in which you are entering effects in the model window is having some influence? I'm running JMP 14.2. Here goes:

From the JMP Home Window

1. DOE -> Custom Design.

2. Enter "4" as the number of factors in the Add N Factors window.

3. In the Add Factor drop down window, selecte continuous factors.

4. Click Continue.

5. In the Model window, click on the RSM button.

6. Enter "5" in the Number of Replicate Runs window.

7. Select the User Specified radio button in the Number of Runs window.

8. Enter "20" in the User Specified window.

9. Click on Make Design.

10. Click on Make Table.

Hopefully you'll have your 20 run I optimal design, with 5 replicates.

Re: Custom DOE, 4 continuous factors, want to add replicate runs

Ryan_Lekivetz — Tue, 22 Jan 2019 22:13:16 GMT

I'm very sorry you ran across this issue, and sorry I did not see this thread until now.
Any chance you're using 14.0? This was an issue that should be fixed in JMP 14.2 (and 14.1). In 14.0, you will have to add the replicates via jsl.

Cheers,
Ryan

Re: Custom DOE, 4 continuous factors, want to add replicate runs

Peter_Bartell — Tue, 22 Jan 2019 22:16:42 GMT

Many thanks to my colleague @Ryan_Lekivetz for chiming in on this thread. All of my work and contributions on this thread are using JMP Pro version 14.2. So maybe Ryan has provided the key root cause?

Re: Custom DOE, 4 continuous factors, want to add replicate runs

Shannon — Tue, 22 Jan 2019 22:25:08 GMT

Yes, that is most likely the cause. I've been using JMP 14.0. I will have to have an IS admin install the update on my computer before I can try it.

Thank you so much for all your help!

Re: Custom DOE, 4 continuous factors, want to add replicate runs

Shannon — Tue, 05 Feb 2019 21:47:49 GMT

I finally was able to update to 14.2 and the replicate runs is working as intended. Thanks again for your help.

Re: Custom DOE, 4 continuous factors, want to add replicate runs

billi — Thu, 11 Apr 2019 18:29:09 GMT

I am not sure if this thread is still active but I use JMP Pro version 14.0 and I am having same problem with replicates. I am not getting any replicate runs in my design.

Re: Custom DOE, 4 continuous factors, want to add replicate runs

Mark_Bailey — Thu, 11 Apr 2019 19:57:45 GMT

It's active now!

The problem was a bug discovered in the version that you are using. You need to update your version. The later maintenance releases included a fix for the bug.

Re: Custom DOE, 4 continuous factors, want to add replicate runs

ilhamhafizovic — Mon, 04 Nov 2019 21:56:26 GMT

Hello Mark,

I just updated to Version 14.3 and I'm still experieincing he problem with custom design. I even tried to replicate the design in this thread, but it would only give me 20 runs with the incorrect replicate number.

Something else gives it seems.

I'm running MacOS High Sierra, JMP14.3.

Re: Custom DOE, 4 continuous factors, want to add replicate runs

ilhamhafizovic — Mon, 04 Nov 2019 22:13:28 GMT

Apologies, disregard my message above. I am realizing that it is working the way it is supposed to. I just made a small error on my end. Thanks!